Legal Issues

Fifi · 08-27-2005, 11:52 AM

Consent - When writing documentation, what language is required for consent rules. You don't want adult players mudesxing 12 year olds. You don't want the parents of 12 year olds sueing you, because their 12 year old takes place in adult situations. What language in your policies best protects you? Where is the best place to put this on your website, and in your documentation?

Links - Many mushes and rp muds have links to essays on what RP is and isn't. What are the legalities of using a link like this?

the_logos · 08-27-2005, 08:32 PM

Just a note: Someone may sue you, and being sued is never fun, but there is absolutely nothing illegal about mudsexing with 12 year olds so the outcome of the lawsuit, if it wasn't tossed out of court on the face of it, is not really in doubt. Mudexing with a 12 year old is screwed up and sick, yes, but it's not illegal.

--matt

GuruPlayer · 08-28-2005, 12:22 AM

Why not just ban mudsex, & you won't have to worry about it?

Sorry, I don't buy the argument that would be made that "we don't want to restrict any behavor for RP purposes" . You obviously have some concerns because you can't enforce an age limit on players. When I started playing D&D, I played with lots of players, & nobody RP'd sex with other characters, only on MUDs does it exist. Ban it & it won't be a problem.

While it may not be illegal, the times are a-changin' re what society will tolerate in some communities, & any legal action costs money no matter what the outcome. Not only do you need to worry about minors being approached, there is the added problem of "stalking" on the MUD after failed or refused romances (it happens), & the possibility of emoted rapes, that the player will claim was justified by his character. You'll have to make the decision, is allowing mudsex worth the potential headaches?

prof1515 · 09-15-2005, 07:27 PM

Matt's correct. As sick as it sounds, it's not illegal. And sadly, despite the best efforts of a game staff, the pervs will find a way to turn every virtual trick they can in-game. Seen it over and over as an admin. You can ban them, but another will probably replace them.

The only effective thing you can do is stress a policy of consent for disturbing behavior (rape, etc) and treat violators as harshly as possible. Then wait for the next one to come along.

However, depending upon the maturity of your pbase, maybe you could post the names/emails of such individuals. Won't do wonders for your MUD's reputation, but then again, maybe those who dislike such behavior as much as you do will appreciate it.

Take care,

Jason

Valg · 10-28-2005, 02:34 PM

I'd be careful there. Publically accusing someone of using online games to sexually harass minors, using their legal identification, could conceivably give the (alleged) pervert an angle to turn the law on you. The intersection between the Internet and the law remains murky, but I'd be concerned about libel, as well as the implication of posting their RL name and information and inciting the readers with such claims.

As for the game itself, we have a rule about such behavior, but I'm curious if anyone's researched a relevant disclaimer for the actions of their players which provides any degree of legal protection from being accused of promoting such behavior.

the_logos · 10-28-2005, 03:36 PM

Quite right. If you're wrong or can't prove it, you risk being sued for defamation.

Your legal protection is the fact that in a text game, no laws are being broken in this situation. You don't need to protect yourself legally from being accused of promoting something that's not illegal. Public relations is another matter entirely, of course.

--matt

danixdefcon5 · 12-14-2005, 05:05 AM

Right.

Once I remember I was in a MUD and one of the female players asked to "go with her". Then started a whole mudsex RP, and this being my first experience MUD/RP-ish, well didn't really know how to follow, how much to do.

After like 4 tense minutes, the player just left (lost link), and then I get messaged by another Player that asks me for that female player. I think it is still RP and I tell him oh yeah, real close recently and he says then "oh no, not netsex again"

so I answer "ooc well she roleplayed it, did feel weird RP but it *is* RP after all"
and he goes "ooc well stay clear she is 14 years old"

so ... my face is like WTF??? Then again, as someone said earlier ... it isn't really sex, so it ain't illegal. Plus, character-wise, you aren't really checking out the actual player's age, so it isn't like you're hitting on the 12 year olders to mudsex!

Consent and links in documentation - Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Player and Staff OOC Consent	Danish	Roleplaying and Storytelling	8	08-17-2004 12:44 PM
Help Documentation	kubera	MUD Builders and Areas	3	02-26-2004 07:25 PM
Wes Platt's recommended links page	Brody	MUD Announcements	0	04-14-2003 03:18 AM
dead links	Robiwan	Bugs and Suggestions	0	07-20-2002 11:27 PM

08-27-2005, 11:52 AM	#1
Fifi Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 227	Consent - When writing documentation, what language is required for consent rules. You don't want adult players mudesxing 12 year olds. You don't want the parents of 12 year olds sueing you, because their 12 year old takes place in adult situations. What language in your policies best protects you? Where is the best place to put this on your website, and in your documentation? Links - Many mushes and rp muds have links to essays on what RP is and isn't. What are the legalities of using a link like this?

08-27-2005, 08:32 PM	#2
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	Just a note: Someone may sue you, and being sued is never fun, but there is absolutely nothing illegal about mudsexing with 12 year olds so the outcome of the lawsuit, if it wasn't tossed out of court on the face of it, is not really in doubt. Mudexing with a 12 year old is screwed up and sick, yes, but it's not illegal. --matt

08-28-2005, 12:22 AM	#3
GuruPlayer Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 73	Why not just ban mudsex, & you won't have to worry about it? Sorry, I don't buy the argument that would be made that "we don't want to restrict any behavor for RP purposes" . You obviously have some concerns because you can't enforce an age limit on players. When I started playing D&D, I played with lots of players, & nobody RP'd sex with other characters, only on MUDs does it exist. Ban it & it won't be a problem. While it may not be illegal, the times are a-changin' re what society will tolerate in some communities, & any legal action costs money no matter what the outcome. Not only do you need to worry about minors being approached, there is the added problem of "stalking" on the MUD after failed or refused romances (it happens), & the possibility of emoted rapes, that the player will claim was justified by his character. You'll have to make the decision, is allowing mudsex worth the potential headaches?

09-15-2005, 07:27 PM	#4
prof1515 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 791	Matt's correct. As sick as it sounds, it's not illegal. And sadly, despite the best efforts of a game staff, the pervs will find a way to turn every virtual trick they can in-game. Seen it over and over as an admin. You can ban them, but another will probably replace them. The only effective thing you can do is stress a policy of consent for disturbing behavior (rape, etc) and treat violators as harshly as possible. Then wait for the next one to come along. However, depending upon the maturity of your pbase, maybe you could post the names/emails of such individuals. Won't do wonders for your MUD's reputation, but then again, maybe those who dislike such behavior as much as you do will appreciate it. Take care, Jason

10-28-2005, 02:34 PM	#5
Valg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: Carrion Fields Posts: 643	I'd be careful there. Publically accusing someone of using online games to sexually harass minors, using their legal identification, could conceivably give the (alleged) pervert an angle to turn the law on you. The intersection between the Internet and the law remains murky, but I'd be concerned about libel, as well as the implication of posting their RL name and information and inciting the readers with such claims. As for the game itself, we have a rule about such behavior, but I'm curious if anyone's researched a relevant disclaimer for the actions of their players which provides any degree of legal protection from being accused of promoting such behavior.

10-28-2005, 03:36 PM	#6
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	Quite right. If you're wrong or can't prove it, you risk being sued for defamation. Your legal protection is the fact that in a text game, no laws are being broken in this situation. You don't need to protect yourself legally from being accused of promoting something that's not illegal. Public relations is another matter entirely, of course. --matt

12-14-2005, 05:05 AM	#7
danixdefcon5 New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4	Right. Once I remember I was in a MUD and one of the female players asked to "go with her". Then started a whole mudsex RP, and this being my first experience MUD/RP-ish, well didn't really know how to follow, how much to do. After like 4 tense minutes, the player just left (lost link), and then I get messaged by another Player that asks me for that female player. I think it is still RP and I tell him oh yeah, real close recently and he says then "oh no, not netsex again" so I answer "ooc well she roleplayed it, did feel weird RP but it is RP after all" and he goes "ooc well stay clear she is 14 years old" so ... my face is like WTF??? Then again, as someone said earlier ... it isn't really sex, so it ain't illegal. Plus, character-wise, you aren't really checking out the actual player's age, so it isn't like you're hitting on the 12 year olders to mudsex!

Legal Issues

Consent and links in documentation