TMS Announcements and Feedback

Lasher · 08-02-2020, 10:27 AM

For those who didn't already notice, the voting page now has Google Recaptcha. Some people flat out hate this and an overall drop in daily average votes was expected. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone is scripting around it, but for now they're not and the numbers represent actual votes.

Check out last month's results () and compare rough daily average to this month to date. Far be it from me to suggest that there might have been some automation taking place before the change, but some of those differences are quite striking.

Newworlds · 08-02-2020, 11:15 AM

I don't think it is that big of a deal.

Most of our players were curious when it popped up but it seems relatively simple. Another option would be to force people to log in to vote like TMC does. That would guaranty real track-able votes. That is much more of a pain though and votes would drop significantly I think.

More importantly is that you are still keeping TMS running. Good job! TMC is a complete failure and disappointment now that the Admin has given up on it. Keep up the good work!

rendekar · 08-02-2020, 02:08 PM

I voted for a mud with zero votes an hour ago and it still shows zero votes for that particular mud. I didn't see ''pick images with traffic lights'' and such. I wonder why my vote didn't count.

Lasher · 08-02-2020, 03:48 PM

PM me the MUD and I'll take a look.

Assuming you hadn't already voted for another MUD today, otherwise that would be why.

Davairus · 08-05-2020, 07:32 AM

I don't see anybody has a grounds to hate this. You guys can just pay for the ads that help Lasher keep the site running instead of botting your way to free publicity anymore. The voting needs to be legit. Its better for the players.

+1000 for recaptcha thank you

Ishuli · 08-08-2020, 10:33 AM

I made an account just to say: Big thanks for the change!
This makes me feel a lot more secure in the idea that most of TopMudSite’s votes are actually people voting and not vote-bloat-bot stuff. We’ve had players in the past hesitant to vote because they felt like their votes didn’t count due to that hefty bloat, but since this change people seem to feel like their votes actually mean something.

So for what its worth, thanks for the change!
-Ish

Lasher · 08-13-2020, 04:39 PM

Funny thing is, not only do the votes look a good bit different than last month, they look a heck of a lot like they did 10 years ago. Don't know if that is good or bad for MUDs overall, but it's interesting.

Newworlds · 08-15-2020, 11:10 AM

Definitely Good!

Kurzon · 08-15-2020, 07:00 PM

The change came up pretty quickly in conversation in our Discord, and most of our players reacted positively to the concept of fairer more accurate voting at the small cost of having to use a captcha. It was interesting to observe certain MUDs historically in the top 5 or so dropping down well out of the top 10 with the change.

Acies · 09-02-2020, 01:51 PM

It would appear one of the MUDs that was always high in the rankings then dropped after Captcha was added figured it out this month and adjusted their methods.

TMS and all similar voting sites function as a traffic exchange. MUDs send players here to vote for them which gives other MUDs some exposure to other players. The games sending the most people here are featured more highly and, in theory, bring the most eyeballs to other MUDs. When a game automates the vote to the point that nobody has to look at the site, that is cheating even if it still has to be initiated manually.

This is taken directly from the Gemstone IV forum:

Jazuela · 11-16-2020, 12:36 PM

I am not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

shevegen · 12-10-2020, 03:24 AM

Personally I hate captchas. They are designed to steal my time while also
serving our master lord Google from getting more information about us
(granted, we can use torbrowsers probably and stuff but these can be
cumbersome and slow, so this is a usability downgrade too).

In my opinion this is not a good situation both ways; either way you trade
in some disadvantages with another one. Such as wanting to prevent
scripted votes, versus stealing time from human beings.

IMO it may be better to associate "karma" points with accounts; surely
some algorithm could be used that accurately attaches "voting behaviour"
with real human beings, rather than penalize everyone merely because
some script kiddies want to pat their small egos (and it's not the only
thing being small with them).

> and most of our players reacted positively to the concept of fairer more
> accurate voting at the small cost of having to use a captcha.

And others do not think this is a good "trade off" at all, so you promote
one variant while excluding and discounting those who dislike
captchas. I am hardly the only one disliking captchas.

Having said that, though, admittedly I am kind of past the typical
player base's age now.

08-02-2020, 10:27 AM	#1
Lasher Administrator Join Date: May 2005 Name: Derek Location: Orlando Posts: 357	Voting Captcha For those who didn't already notice, the voting page now has Google Recaptcha. Some people flat out hate this and an overall drop in daily average votes was expected. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone is scripting around it, but for now they're not and the numbers represent actual votes. Check out last month's results () and compare rough daily average to this month to date. Far be it from me to suggest that there might have been some automation taking place before the change, but some of those differences are quite striking.

08-02-2020, 11:15 AM	#2
Newworlds Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Name: NewWorlds Home MUD: New Worlds Posts: 1,425	Re: Voting Captcha I don't think it is that big of a deal. Most of our players were curious when it popped up but it seems relatively simple. Another option would be to force people to log in to vote like TMC does. That would guaranty real track-able votes. That is much more of a pain though and votes would drop significantly I think. More importantly is that you are still keeping TMS running. Good job! TMC is a complete failure and disappointment now that the Admin has given up on it. Keep up the good work!

08-02-2020, 02:08 PM	#3
rendekar Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 78	Re: Voting Captcha I voted for a mud with zero votes an hour ago and it still shows zero votes for that particular mud. I didn't see ''pick images with traffic lights'' and such. I wonder why my vote didn't count.

08-02-2020, 03:48 PM	#4
Lasher Administrator Join Date: May 2005 Name: Derek Location: Orlando Posts: 357	Re: Voting Captcha PM me the MUD and I'll take a look. Assuming you hadn't already voted for another MUD today, otherwise that would be why.

08-05-2020, 07:32 AM	#5
Davairus Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 159	Re: Voting Captcha I don't see anybody has a grounds to hate this. You guys can just pay for the ads that help Lasher keep the site running instead of botting your way to free publicity anymore. The voting needs to be legit. Its better for the players. +1000 for recaptcha thank you Last edited by Davairus : 08-05-2020 at 08:11 AM.

08-08-2020, 10:33 AM	#6
Ishuli New Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 1	Re: Voting Captcha I made an account just to say: Big thanks for the change! This makes me feel a lot more secure in the idea that most of TopMudSite’s votes are actually people voting and not vote-bloat-bot stuff. We’ve had players in the past hesitant to vote because they felt like their votes didn’t count due to that hefty bloat, but since this change people seem to feel like their votes actually mean something. So for what its worth, thanks for the change! -Ish

08-13-2020, 04:39 PM	#7
Lasher Administrator Join Date: May 2005 Name: Derek Location: Orlando Posts: 357	Re: Voting Captcha Funny thing is, not only do the votes look a good bit different than last month, they look a heck of a lot like they did 10 years ago. Don't know if that is good or bad for MUDs overall, but it's interesting.

08-15-2020, 11:10 AM	#8
Newworlds Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Name: NewWorlds Home MUD: New Worlds Posts: 1,425	Re: Voting Captcha Definitely Good!

08-15-2020, 07:00 PM	#9
Kurzon New Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5	Re: Voting Captcha The change came up pretty quickly in conversation in our Discord, and most of our players reacted positively to the concept of fairer more accurate voting at the small cost of having to use a captcha. It was interesting to observe certain MUDs historically in the top 5 or so dropping down well out of the top 10 with the change.

09-02-2020, 01:51 PM	#10
Acies New Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3	Re: Voting Captcha It would appear one of the MUDs that was always high in the rankings then dropped after Captcha was added figured it out this month and adjusted their methods. TMS and all similar voting sites function as a traffic exchange. MUDs send players here to vote for them which gives other MUDs some exposure to other players. The games sending the most people here are featured more highly and, in theory, bring the most eyeballs to other MUDs. When a game automates the vote to the point that nobody has to look at the site, that is cheating even if it still has to be initiated manually. This is taken directly from the Gemstone IV forum:

11-16-2020, 12:36 PM	#11
Jazuela Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New England Posts: 849	Re: Voting Captcha I am not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

12-10-2020, 03:24 AM	#12
shevegen Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 63	Re: Voting Captcha Personally I hate captchas. They are designed to steal my time while also serving our master lord Google from getting more information about us (granted, we can use torbrowsers probably and stuff but these can be cumbersome and slow, so this is a usability downgrade too). In my opinion this is not a good situation both ways; either way you trade in some disadvantages with another one. Such as wanting to prevent scripted votes, versus stealing time from human beings. IMO it may be better to associate "karma" points with accounts; surely some algorithm could be used that accurately attaches "voting behaviour" with real human beings, rather than penalize everyone merely because some script kiddies want to pat their small egos (and it's not the only thing being small with them). > and most of our players reacted positively to the concept of fairer more > accurate voting at the small cost of having to use a captcha. And others do not think this is a good "trade off" at all, so you promote one variant while excluding and discounting those who dislike captchas. I am hardly the only one disliking captchas. Having said that, though, admittedly I am kind of past the typical player base's age now.

TMS Announcements and Feedback

Voting Captcha