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Brody · 06-05-2003, 01:02 PM

A few things:
1) I absolutely respect and applaud Matt's willingness to take a stand on this issue, even if I don't care for the fact that he picked on a *specific MUD* for the purpose of opening this crusade. Singling out Shadows of Isildur was, in my opinion, a tactical mistake that got quite a few of us distracted from the important and valid points Matt was trying to make. The problem with isolating SoI and Traithe is that Matt is effectively attacking Traithe for *trying* to do right by the Tolkien estate, which is far more than many other Tolkien MUD operators have probably ever done.
2) If someone planned to start their own OtherSpace MU*, I'd certainly want the courtesy of a request of permission. But unless the developer sought to profit from the MUD, I think I'd stop short of calling him/her a thief. And if I learned they were using the OtherSpace theme in a way I deemed inappropriate, I would expect them to respect my request to quit using the theme. If they didn't, then, certainly, I'd have some serious issues with them and might even call them a thief.
3) Traithe doesn't deserve to be compared to Vryce, which is the other tactical error Matt made, in my opinion. The Tolkien estate hasn't been trying in vain to get Traithe to shut down his MUD. Traithe hasn't been claiming Tolkien intellectual property as his own creation. Traithe hasn't been thumbing his nose at the Tolkien estate or anyone who dares to criticize him - he's even gone so far as to say, publicly, that if the Tolkien estate takes issue with the existence of his MUD, he would take it offline. Show me anywhere that Vryce ever said anything like that. Buried under the personal attacks against Traithe, however, are some valid arguments worth considering.
4) In many ways, I agree with the basic principles Matt has been putting forth. If an author has made it clear they don't want their work used in MUDs, those wishes should be respected unless you secure specific permission. But if a new MUD developer finds loads of unlicensed Tolkien or Wheel of Time games at The MUD Connector or Top MUD Sites, who can really blame him for thinking he can make his own free game in middle earth? Most people who set up MUDs aren't much more than kids and they certainly don't know a great deal about copyright law. Some development documents, such as Javelin's PennMUSH Guide for Gods, actually encourage developing games with established themes because they come with a built-in audience. But the guide also offers this bit of wisdom:That said: If I find two dozen Tolkien MUDs on the Internet, and the Tolkien estate hasn't moved to shut any of them down, it strikes me as relatively reasonable for a MUD-maker to assume he can do his own without fear of repercussions. The same with Star Wars, Star Trek, Wheel of Time, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the X-Files. I'm not saying it's legally right if challenged in court, but I am saying it's not morally reprehensible if the MUD community in general seems to have tolerated these "violations" for more than 20 years. I'm saying don't call someone a thief if they aren't really stealing and aren't acting in bad faith. If Traithe uses text from Tolkien's books in room descriptions and news files without permission, that's theft - and certainly the sort of thing that would and should draw the ire of Tolkien's estate. But the mere existence of Shadows of Isildur isn't a blight on the MUD landscape, in my opinion, unless the Tolkien estate announces that it wants SoI and every other Tolkien-inspired free-to-the-public game yanked off the Internet. If that happens, and Traithe and all the other Tolkien MUD operators keep their games going in defiance of the wishes of the IP holders, then I'll stand on the wall next to Matt and call them all thieves. Until then, unless Traithe and the rest claim to have created Gandalf or misuse direct text from the books without permission, I'll accept their games as homages and celebrations of the material.

06-05-2003, 01:02 PM	#119
Brody Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: North Carolina Home MUD: OtherSpace Posts: 1,599	A few things: 1) I absolutely respect and applaud Matt's willingness to take a stand on this issue, even if I don't care for the fact that he picked on a specific MUD for the purpose of opening this crusade. Singling out Shadows of Isildur was, in my opinion, a tactical mistake that got quite a few of us distracted from the important and valid points Matt was trying to make. The problem with isolating SoI and Traithe is that Matt is effectively attacking Traithe for trying to do right by the Tolkien estate, which is far more than many other Tolkien MUD operators have probably ever done. 2) If someone planned to start their own OtherSpace MU*, I'd certainly want the courtesy of a request of permission. But unless the developer sought to profit from the MUD, I think I'd stop short of calling him/her a thief. And if I learned they were using the OtherSpace theme in a way I deemed inappropriate, I would expect them to respect my request to quit using the theme. If they didn't, then, certainly, I'd have some serious issues with them and might even call them a thief. 3) Traithe doesn't deserve to be compared to Vryce, which is the other tactical error Matt made, in my opinion. The Tolkien estate hasn't been trying in vain to get Traithe to shut down his MUD. Traithe hasn't been claiming Tolkien intellectual property as his own creation. Traithe hasn't been thumbing his nose at the Tolkien estate or anyone who dares to criticize him - he's even gone so far as to say, publicly, that if the Tolkien estate takes issue with the existence of his MUD, he would take it offline. Show me anywhere that Vryce ever said anything like that. Buried under the personal attacks against Traithe, however, are some valid arguments worth considering. 4) In many ways, I agree with the basic principles Matt has been putting forth. If an author has made it clear they don't want their work used in MUDs, those wishes should be respected unless you secure specific permission. But if a new MUD developer finds loads of unlicensed Tolkien or Wheel of Time games at The MUD Connector or Top MUD Sites, who can really blame him for thinking he can make his own free game in middle earth? Most people who set up MUDs aren't much more than kids and they certainly don't know a great deal about copyright law. Some development documents, such as Javelin's PennMUSH Guide for Gods, actually encourage developing games with established themes because they come with a built-in audience. But the guide also offers this bit of wisdom:That said: If I find two dozen Tolkien MUDs on the Internet, and the Tolkien estate hasn't moved to shut any of them down, it strikes me as relatively reasonable for a MUD-maker to assume he can do his own without fear of repercussions. The same with Star Wars, Star Trek, Wheel of Time, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the X-Files. I'm not saying it's legally right if challenged in court, but I am saying it's not morally reprehensible if the MUD community in general seems to have tolerated these "violations" for more than 20 years. I'm saying don't call someone a thief if they aren't really stealing and aren't acting in bad faith. If Traithe uses text from Tolkien's books in room descriptions and news files without permission, that's theft - and certainly the sort of thing that would and should draw the ire of Tolkien's estate. But the mere existence of Shadows of Isildur isn't a blight on the MUD landscape, in my opinion, unless the Tolkien estate announces that it wants SoI and every other Tolkien-inspired free-to-the-public game yanked off the Internet. If that happens, and Traithe and all the other Tolkien MUD operators keep their games going in defiance of the wishes of the IP holders, then I'll stand on the wall next to Matt and call them all thieves. Until then, unless Traithe and the rest claim to have created Gandalf or misuse direct text from the books without permission, I'll accept their games as homages and celebrations of the material.