Top Mud Sites Forum - View Single Post - Aardwolf commercially violating diku licence

11-07-2003, 11:48 AM

[quote=KaVir,Nov. 06 2003,11:45]I see from a standpoint how it can be taken that way. Although that could be applied to almost any amount of situations and stretched around. When we purchase software online that gives us the link to download are we purchasing goods or services? We are not paying for physical packaging or anything else, but the program and the cost the author puts on his creation.

It was my fault for being unclear in the last post, I stated coding and I meant ITEM, so I apologize. My point is that the item is what is being sold, the cost of the item is being calculated as mentioned, cost of production is almost always calculated in goods. So if the mud is selling the item, really no matter what calculation they use to price it, then it would be deductible from Net receipts.

Note: Not saying this applies to Aardwolf specifically. But my little calculation was just an example, a precoded item can still have a defined cost. E.g. downloadable software that you pay for.

Alastair:
No, i'm sorry Alastair, it's not whichever way I interpret profit nor anybody on the other side of the little red line interprets it. It's how the courts would interpret the license. I happen to agree with the previous claim that the specific part of the license we are referring to will be intrepreted as "non-commercial", looking up precedence (google is temporarily blocked from the base i'm at and other search engines blow).

The wording is quite specific and mentions nothing about gratuities, donations or the like. It also makes no mention how an IRS registered non-profit organization may use the software, nor does it even attempt to define it's meaning of profit. How does it apply to a hobby under law, under the IRS definition?

While I agree ethics do have a take in things, so does common sense. Your mention of "Good Faith" basis would probably not have the effect intended. I see no dishonorable intent in receiving donations to keep a server running, keeping no money on the side, nor do I see any foul play in thanking someone for donating. I receive a ribbon every christmas for dropping change in Veteran's and Red Cross buckets. Maybe they should register as a buisness, selling those damned flimsy ribbons.

Is the money being given without expectation of reward? Yes, we've heard from players who have said so. Is there a set list of what kind of rewards you can get for paying a certain amount of money? No, not that has been shown. Neither has it been shown that giving a donation ALWAYS results in an item of /said/ quality. So I would say that Aardwolf is operating on good faith on his contractual obligations, at least by their own omission, they aren't intending to profit.

Whether or not the DIKUMud license creators believe that this is the correct definition of profit would also be taken into consideration, it would also be taken into consideration the wording of their license and the general interpretation of it. Sitting down and looking at the license would someone think that it disallows donation?

I still stand by my point that legality over-rules "spirit".

No, it comes back to saying NON-COMMERCIAL usage. Donations will not count as commercial income, otherwise non-profit organizations would be screwed.

True, some here aren't arguing in good faith, on either side. I do understand people arguing my points, which I'm happy about.

11-07-2003, 11:48 AM	#153
kaylus1 Posts: n/a	[quote=KaVir,Nov. 06 2003,11:45]I see from a standpoint how it can be taken that way. Although that could be applied to almost any amount of situations and stretched around. When we purchase software online that gives us the link to download are we purchasing goods or services? We are not paying for physical packaging or anything else, but the program and the cost the author puts on his creation. It was my fault for being unclear in the last post, I stated coding and I meant ITEM, so I apologize. My point is that the item is what is being sold, the cost of the item is being calculated as mentioned, cost of production is almost always calculated in goods. So if the mud is selling the item, really no matter what calculation they use to price it, then it would be deductible from Net receipts. Note: Not saying this applies to Aardwolf specifically. But my little calculation was just an example, a precoded item can still have a defined cost. E.g. downloadable software that you pay for. Alastair: No, i'm sorry Alastair, it's not whichever way I interpret profit nor anybody on the other side of the little red line interprets it. It's how the courts would interpret the license. I happen to agree with the previous claim that the specific part of the license we are referring to will be intrepreted as "non-commercial", looking up precedence (google is temporarily blocked from the base i'm at and other search engines blow). The wording is quite specific and mentions nothing about gratuities, donations or the like. It also makes no mention how an IRS registered non-profit organization may use the software, nor does it even attempt to define it's meaning of profit. How does it apply to a hobby under law, under the IRS definition? While I agree ethics do have a take in things, so does common sense. Your mention of "Good Faith" basis would probably not have the effect intended. I see no dishonorable intent in receiving donations to keep a server running, keeping no money on the side, nor do I see any foul play in thanking someone for donating. I receive a ribbon every christmas for dropping change in Veteran's and Red Cross buckets. Maybe they should register as a buisness, selling those damned flimsy ribbons. Is the money being given without expectation of reward? Yes, we've heard from players who have said so. Is there a set list of what kind of rewards you can get for paying a certain amount of money? No, not that has been shown. Neither has it been shown that giving a donation ALWAYS results in an item of /said/ quality. So I would say that Aardwolf is operating on good faith on his contractual obligations, at least by their own omission, they aren't intending to profit. Whether or not the DIKUMud license creators believe that this is the correct definition of profit would also be taken into consideration, it would also be taken into consideration the wording of their license and the general interpretation of it. Sitting down and looking at the license would someone think that it disallows donation? I still stand by my point that legality over-rules "spirit". No, it comes back to saying NON-COMMERCIAL usage. Donations will not count as commercial income, otherwise non-profit organizations would be screwed. True, some here aren't arguing in good faith, on either side. I do understand people arguing my points, which I'm happy about.