Am I the only one who notices that forum discussion has really fallen off recently? What happened?

It's Summertime in the States. That means a lot of people are on vacation, away from their computers, or mowing the lawn, or enduring the wonder that is "cookout" in their back yards with three dozen family members that they never thought they'd have to see again.

Well, I can't say why for everyone but as for myself, I've been under doctor's orders to remain in bed 24/7 so I haven't been downstairs at the computer much for a couple weeks (though 3 of the last 4 days I've been out of bed far, far too much).

Take care,

Jason

Medievia.

I wasn't being facetious. Several of the more active posters left after Synozeer allowed Medievia back, and without them most threads don't reach critical mass. It's the simplest explanation for the phenomenon.

I'd say it wasn't the people leaving that was the result of Medievia, rather I would say that Medieivia resulted in a sort of overload on the forum in which there was more conversation than there had ever been.  Shortly after it was accepted the overload stopped completely and the forum is sort of like a bombed out wasteland right now, the big issue many people started posting for is now gone, and the lurkers who came out of their caves retreated back into the abyss until the next controversy unfolds.  Maybe I should pull another "Achaea sucks" in the flames thread just to liven things up a bit!

Frankly, I don't think anything is different.

There are periodic surges of traffic, and then there will be barely anything for days or weeks. It has been like that for years.

I'd just like to see idiot admins stop posting identical threads in "Looking for Players" and "Looking for Coders."

Which is it?

If you need coders, it ain't time for players yet.

I don't mind the players/coders adverts, it's the two threads that are IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY and both get bumped at the same time, as if the person WANTED to post two threads that are exactly the same and take up two slots in the recent discussion list.

I dislike seeing that too.

I'll add one more to the list: posters who bump their post without any content.

If you're going to add another reply, at least have something to say other than "Bumped". If it's an advertisement, I personally don't want to see it bumped for at least a few months or until major differences have occured in the month (and posting a general advertisement and then another the next day to announce an event is just as annoying...any degree of organization would allow an admin to avoid such frivolity by simply combining the post). You had your chance, you posted, now it's done. It's still on the forums even if it's not on the recent postings list. But if every MUD posted as often, it'd get pretty outrageous.

Take care,

Jason

That's the problem. The threads this mythical "he" bumped were NOT important. Thus, he shouldn't have been bumping them.

The reality of the TMS forums is that the majority of readers only notice topics on the front page. If 2 of the 7 are basically the same thread, that is a huge waste, and it also means at least one thread that MIGHT have interested someone is not listed there.

I actually think it would be a great idea if the "Advertising for..." forums were excluded from being included in the front page of "recent discussions."

If someone is looking for a mud, they can easily seek out those forums directly.

Sending your fanbois to bump it every 2-3 weeks sounds like spam to me.

There are actual discussions someone might find more interesting than someone's purely self-interested self-promotion thread getting bumped just out of habit.

Earthmother; July 18 2005,02:44
It is true that people come and go in any forum, and it is also true that the activity in discussion forums as well as in muds usually goes down during summertime, for many reasons.

Still, you need a 'critical mass' of posters with both interesting things to say and differing opinions for a forum to stay alive. (The failure of the closed 'Mind's Eye' Forum shows that). If most of the oldtime posters leave a forum, or stay silent in protest, the valid discussions about interesting subjects will dwindle down to almost nothing, leaving only the drab promotion and asking- for-coders/builders spam. And the odd interesting subject that still may be raised often drowns in that spam.

This is what this forum has been reduced to lately, and most of us are aware of the reason why so many of the oldtime posters left in protest.

Perhaps the discussions will pick up in time, but that doesn't change the fact that the unfortunate decision regarding Medievia has tapped it of much of its lifeblood.

In time new posters may replace the ones that left and perhaps some of them will be as interesting as the old ones. But in any case that will be a slow process, especially if there are more interesting discussions to be found elsewhere.

And that is why most of the more experienced developers of free games left. Forum readers are pragmatical, they don't just 'come and go'. Serious mud developers have their beliefs and principles, some of them very strong, and they will act in accordance with their principles. If people don't like the general atmosphere or the topics in a forum, they are likely to take their business elsewhere and be gone for good.

Personally, I found the hostility and nastiness rather offputting and decided to give this forum a rest. However, I am pleased to note that I posted a topic elsewhere on the site recently and it has received nice and interesting discussion on a timely issue.

Everyone has their passions, but when it becomes uncivilized and cruel a lot of people are put off by it. It drives folks away. Sadly, I think THAT is the kind of thing the admin should be moderating, and is not.

Well, you really started up posting in "Conflict: Medievia", so it is understandable why many people were on edge.

Numerous people left after Molly from 4D did. Her comments about Tyche and others were carefully weighed, and many people do not want to be involved in a community associated with him.

Er, what comments about Tyche? He left at the same time Molly did, for pretty much the same reason...

Yeah, if it wasn't for Tyche, this forum might never have had that same "constant battleground" feel that it did. As much as I say stuff like this, I actually liked Tyche, the forum was more fun when he was around. I especially liked how he and other people would derail all the good threads and turn them into blatant flames of each other. (I'm not going to name names of anyone else besides Tyche because no one likes it when people name names)

Molly, like many others, left because of the sad state of the TMS forums. I suspect you have confused Tyche with the_logos.

The departure of Molly and Tyche has actually been a boon to the forums.

Soon after they left, there were a TON of excellent discussions that for once did not get derailed into a bunch of BS.

Also, Molly was one of the worst of the "wanna-be-mud-developer who actually knows jack squat." Any forum she pollutes is never going to have much substance to it.

The discussions that DO take place on TMS now are much improved. There may be less activity, but is it really a bad thing to have less flames and less mindless drivel?

To each his own. If you find the discussions here interesting, good for you. I find most of them boring and superficial and prefer the discussions over at mudlab. With Molly and Tyche.

Thresh is right, though I would have put it less bluntly, Molly did have her personal "vendettas" against many people in lots of threads that could have evolved into interesting conversations.  Remember my thread about race originality?  It devolved into a flame war because somebody said something about 4D's races and so Molly felt the need to carry on an arguement with this person in the middle of the thread.  It fell off not long after that.  Of course, I'm not saying it was Molly's fault somebody said her game's races were not original, I just don't see why she had to fight with this particular person. I'm not saying I haven't participated in any flame wars, but most of them were on topic, even if they WERE in the flames thread.

Hopefully everything has quieted down because people are actually working on their games instead of talking about working on their games. Somehow I don't think thats the real reason though.

Yeah, they're probably just lazy.

And yet here you are, posting away, and making sure to tell us you think some other place is better.

In over a decade of playing and making MUDs, I have watched MANY times where members of one community ran off to try and do better.

You always know when they are failing when they have to send people back to the original to tell everyone how that one has gone down in quality, how the new one is so much better, etc.

There's a word for it. Its called: floundering.

Ilkidarios wrote: July 22 2005,22:35
I suppose it never occurred to you that the person who actually ‘derailed’ your thread was the one that originally attacked her? Most posters defend themselves when attacked.

Threshold wrote: July 23 2005,03:21


On what statistics do you found that cocksure statement? While it is true that most new mud efforts fail, it is also true that quite a few ventures that started as a ‘spin-off’ from another mud ended up more successful than the original. In my opinion this has more to do with the seriousness, abilities and willingness to work among the people that develop and run the muds than the origin of those people.

Muds started by twinks usually fold in a short time. Muds started by serious developers usually prevail. They may not always have hundreds of players, but that is not always their goal either.

In case you are referring to ‘The Mind’s Eye’ Boards, my theory is that this forum died from lack of oxygen. The limitations on who was even allowed to join, and the fact that the only opinions allowed seemed to be the ones consistent with those of the management, effectively killed it in a very short time.

As far as the Mudlab.org forum is concerned, it is a totally open forum, and anyone is free to go there and assess the quality of the discussions compared to here. And although it is true that some of the people that are active members there occasionally are still posting here too, it also seems that many of them, including Molly, made a clean cut.

Also I suppose it never entered either of your minds that repeatedly slandering people who aren’t even here to defend themselves is rather tacky, to say the least. If this is what the ethic standard of this forum has fallen to, no wonder all those people left.

If I recall, Molly had posted claiming her races were original. Considering that "caucasian human", "faun", and other such non-original races are not original, what did she have to defend herself from? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to admit she had made an incorrect statement?

Pointing out facts that may contradict your point of view is not an attack, though Molly treated every such instance as one.

--matt

How is that relevant?

If the other forum was so great, she wouldn't even waste her time coming here at all.

When I've decided a certain forum, blog, whatever is not worth my time, I stop visiting it. I don't pop in every now and then just to tell them how much they suck and how I've found somewhere better.

Aha. So when someone says Molly/Tyche's departure has hurt the forum, and I disagree, and express my opinion that the forum is better without them, that's slander?

You need a dictionary, my friend.

Sheesh. If you really have to know, I came to post here because Molly was bothered by the fact that somebody was putting things into her mouth, and spreading unfounded rumours.

So, once more, for the record: Molly did not leave because of Tyche. Molly likes Tyche.

Thankee. My job here is done.

No offense to Molly, but I don't really care what she thinks anymore.  She's obviously not here anymore.  If she thinks it's so important to tell people things, she should come here herself, not seek someone else for representation. Again, no offense to anyone, but I do think it's ridiculous to have representatives going from forum to forum telling people that they are "mistaken in their views".

I think we all had quite enough of Molly while she was here. We certainly don't need more of her now that she's gone. ESPECIALLY if she doesn't have the balls to come here herself and say what she feels she must say, instead of hiding behind mudlab and sending a lackey on her behalf.

You coming here to say you prefer to be somewhere else is pointless, trollish, and inane. Go somewhere else if it floats your boat, and stop whining about how bad it is here, since you've already made your decision.

I have to agree, perhaps a bit more diplomatically, that Molly sending people to TMS to (apparently) defend her while promoting Mudlab is an unfortunate choice of tactics. When she was here, Molly never hesitated to pipe up for herself. If it bothers her so much, she should post here on her own behalf and not rely on a proxy. To do otherwise undermines the potential for respect for her opinion.

Jesus. Another 4 page yawner.

I thought we were done with this 2 months ago. Sinuhe, Angie, et al.: you are not helping anything. If you don't like this forum, stop posting, stop reading, stop worrying about what someone else might think of you (or Molly). Delete your account like Tyche did, it will save you the temptation.

Jazuela wrote:
Holy Cow.

You people really are a nice lot, aren't you?

I left this Forum months ago, and you still feel the need to discuss me behind my back?

Balls has nothing to do with it, Jazuela. I am not hiding behind anything or anybody. I just don't generally monitor these boards any more.

But since you and Brody and Ilkidaros called me out, I will make one last appearance and 'pipe up' for myself. So here goes:

I don't come to this forum any more because I don't like the turn it has taken, and because the discussions here are of very little interest to me lately. Also, quite frankly, what you and certain other frequent posters on this board think about me is of even less interest  to me. I have had quite enough of most of you too, and the people whose opinions I respect I can meet elsewhere.

What did matter a bit to me was that someone put words in my mouth that were totally inconsistent with my actual opinions. That bothered me a bit, because it involved someone else. It also bothers me that a friend of mine is taking some heat now, because she wanted to do a nice thing for me and spare me the discomfort of returning here myself just to set the record straight. I didn't ask her to do it, it was simply an act of kindness on her side.

If you have nothing better to do with your time than discussing me, feel free to continue doing so. It's all fine by me. Like I said, I don't really care any more.

But at least have the courtesy to not put words in my mouth, or to call me a coward, because I chose not to participate in a place that doesn't interest me.

I will ask Synozeer to delete my account now.

Quoted for truth.

You left this forum months ago, and yet you still feel the need to send lackies here to defend you?

Uh-huh. And yet you sent a lackey to defend you, and now here you are yourself. Just like you didn't make fake extra accounts on TMS to defend yourself in the past and then cajole Andrew/Icculus into deleting posts where you got caught. Right?

If that were true you wouldn't have sent lackeys to defend you and you wouldn't be here now making this post.


Hahahahahahahaha. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


Don't be so full of yourself. You really aren't a topic of conversation. The fact that the sheer JOY of your absence sometimes bubbles up and spills out is not "discussing" you.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Is it for real this time? You're like Jason Voorhees.

It's better that she at least came here in person this time instead of using a puppet, it has more dignity.  Though has anyone read the actual thread on Mud Labs that was linked to earlier?  She acts as if she doesn't care, but then she comes back anyway.

Observe this post by Molly after Alayla (AKA Angie) says that she posted a rebuttal for her:
(note: the words in brackets were added to make it easier for those who did not read the thread, she did not write the parts in brackets but they clarify what she is talking about)

This message was posted on July 22nd, yet on July 24th, she came back here and posted.  I don't see why it was necessary to come back, though it was nice to have someone show their face, she had said that she was NOT going to come back.  All I'm saying is, that if she truly left these boards she would not care about what someone here says, and this would have all passed very quickly if the flames were not fanned by the very person who claimed to "not care" about here anymore.

is the aforementioned forum thread at Mud Labs, you can review the evidence and draw your own conclusions, but essentially there will be the same points.

Hey thanks for sharing your insight into the situation. I feel I now have a much sounder grasp of this very important issue.

+1.

I amend my previous conclusion as to why this forum has spiraled downwards so quickly to "Medievia. And horrible moderation."

Then why don't you move on, too?

H

Why don't you move on, fool? We all have a reason to be here, yet yours seems to be more bent on just being a troll.

This whole topic is uninteresting, and unexciting. I come here to read about topics that are somewhat helpful to my brain. This forum has become more of a gossip magazine, offering nothing but useless drivel and ads.

I realize that many of my posts dont contain much, but theres nothing interesting to post on a thread that isnt interesting.

So... does this thread count as part of that "excellent discussion" to which you refer?

I never post here, but lurk fairly often in the hopes that there is an interesting discussion or two to read.  Sometimes there is, sometimes there is not.  I have observed (anecdotally) that of the main MUD discussion boards, this one appears to be the worst for flames and just senseless crap.  

FWIW, I believe that the sorry state of these forums can not be attributed to just one poster, or even a handful of posters. I think it is obtuse to assume otherwise.

Well, how long have you been lurking?  Were you here before Medievia happened? If you were, you must have an odd sense of interesting discussions, because you hadn't posted then.

Yes, I have been lurking for a very long time. I came out of permanent lurking when the medievia incident happened...(Points at his join date) It took two or three weeks for my profile to be accepted however, and so i was a little late.

I consider interesting discussions those that dont involve talking about people behind their backs,  the person getting talked about breaking their promise, coming back and making a statement, and then the people ragging on the person some more. Does that give you more insight on what I consider an interesting conversation?

You mean, will she come crawling back to TMS with her tail between her legs, like you and the rest of the_logos' lackies did after your forums flopped?

I doubt it, because the forums she's involved with seem to be doing pretty well. And it's obviously hitting a nerve with you that someone you refer to as "wanna-be-mud-developer" has managed to succeed where you failed - which is rather ironic, considering you're the one who's always accusing other people of being jealous.

No, they're not. They were much improved after you and the_logos went away, but returned to the usual flame-wars after your forums failed and you came back here. Now that Molly, Tyche, and many of the others who actually contributed something to the discussion have left, the discussions have pretty much sunk to an all-time low. Brody's obviously been desparately trying to start any sort of useful discussion he can think of, even bumping up old threads to try and spark some interest, but when the main posters are the 'dregs' of the forum, like Ilkidarios and Jazuela, or people who only post to advertise their own games (and then bump them every few days, something which certain commercial muds are particularly noterious for) then it's hardly surprising that the quality of the discussions have fallen.