If you can post, you don't need to ask if you can come back.

I personally don't want you back. I belief in finality, and the power of repercussions. I didn't like your posts before, I don't like this one, and I will most likely not like yours future posts. Go find a Dragonball:Z MUD and annoy them, instead.

Once you're bored with being 'back', you'll do something self-serving, stupid, and annoying to ease -your- boredom.

I'd rather it be elsewhere than here.

People can change Robbert. It is always worth giving a second chance.

Further than that, I personally feel its always worth giving one final undeserved chance (publically acknowledged as such). If people don't learn after that, you've obtained an overwhelming moral majority.

Wow... meta-spam.

Hey look, its a dog, eating chicken!

RUN AWAY! ITS A DOG-EATING CHICKEN!

MOST won't mind your coming back as long as you adhere to the rules in place... however, if the above is what your 'coming back' causes, then I think most would be just as happy for you to stay gone.

Feel free to stay and post, so long as you adhere to the rules of this forum.

LikitaRenn wrote:
 To bring this further in line with MU*s  (and not as any kind of reference to any behaviour on this forum) I'd like to use Likita's post for some opinions.
 We've had a few players who got banned for behaviour problems on our mud, and then after a couple weeks (months, days, depends on the player) they would e-mail us, or go on a friend's account and pose the same plea Likita posted above. (Content varied slightly, but all had the same general qualities. At least one claimed that we could always ban him again if he didn't behave.)
 At what point does one say enough?  We firmly believe in giving people a second chance, but in some of these cases we gave the supposedly sincere ones 4th, 5th, 6th, etc., chances, only to get this same kind of note when they got bored elsewhere.
 When do you draw the line on letting them back? Does permbanning justify NEVER letting them come back? Short of them hacking the server, how does one decide whom should not be accepted at face value?
 When does "I'm sorry! I'll never do it again. Can I come back? Puh-LEEEASSSSSSSSSSE??"
stop being accepted as being penitent enough to allow them back?
 Lenient? Draconian? Case by Case basis? Based off the player and what they do? Based off the player and what they did LAST time? Based off how many people you think might quit if they find out the person is coming back?
 All of the above?
 I would like to hear how other administrators handle this situation in a mud on a general basis.
     --QS

Well, there simply is no easy way to deal with people, considering you have to deal with each case seperately and pass judgement accordingly in a responsible way. This will take allot of time, especially if you are going to hear out both sides on a particular case (which you will do if you're going to be fair to both parties) and investigate things. Of course there are several more factors which shoudl weigh in your judgement to allow people to come back.

Severity:
What happened anyways? Was it a simple mistake or a minor offense? For example, carrying around a duplicated item while never proven that person duplicated it, is something else then another person who did a full-fledged DDoS against the MUD server.

Personality:
Was the person dealth with a calm, kind and generally honest person in your own AND OTHER opinions? Or was he abusive, already bordering on the edge of being banned for quite some time? If it's the latter, it'd be better to give that person a few months to cool off and to get the idea through to them.

Timespan:
Of course you shouldn't be too bitter about something that happened more then a year back. People change, both you and the player. Give that person a chance after a lengthy period and keep a close eye on said person. When someone emails you after a day or less though, it's an entirely different matter.

Of course, above all, use your common sense and judge fairly on people. There are loads more criteria besides the few I listed.

Well,

I can tell you that I stopped paying attention to this place a few months ago because of how silly the boards had become. It is only recently that I have started to view them again. I have also noted that many of the other people who I felt actually contributed something haven't posted in a while either. If people come back and behave, it doesn't bother me. But, if TMS degenerates into what it was not too long ago, I doubt I would come back.

I also IMP on a mud, and when I ban someone, I usually leave them banned for quite a long time. It is very unlikely that they would convince me to unban them.

I firmly believe in reaping the consequences of ones actions. The degeneration of public opinion for the initiator of this thread, and for others of this one's ilk, was a slow and discernible process. The initial poster planted the fruit, and grew the fruit, and reaped the fruit.

Now they say the fruit is bitter, and that they would like a new field in which to plant.

The very fact that they are posting a question with as little substance as "can I come back and post" should show you that they have learned nothing. I have read nothing of substance from this poster, and doubt I ever will. In 400+ posts of Shao Long, I have only seen one which was even relatively worth reading, and that was the play on words posted on this very thread. I expect the same return to investment ratio with the initator of this thread.

I'll not respond further to this thread. I believe that one should suffer the consequences of ones actions, and am not a very forgiving person. When I ban an ISP on the game for which I program, I ban it permanently. If another user of that ISP manages to get the ISP to contact me and that ISP can reassure me that there will be no further problems from the individual in question, I will relent the ban.

I say, delete the profile of the intiator of this thread. Let them create a new persona if they want, but no rewards should be reaped for the drivel they posted in the past - even if that 'reward' is as surreal as a worthless number reflecting how many posts they have made.

There should be finality to more than death.

I would also note that she only offers to behave herself "moreso than before at least"  She is qualifying her willingness to conform the the rules and expected ettiquette.  It is as if she is saying, "I still won't follow the rules, but I'll be better than before."

Is this really all that is needed to be accepted back at TMS?  Is TMS so concerned about volume that it doesn't even care if it's signal or noise?

I was one of the people who argued with likita/shao/etc during their race for 1000 posts.  I recall very little willingness on their part to even consider the wishes of other posters.  Why then, should we extend a consideration to her that was never offered to us?

Why is everyone so bitter towards Likita? I'm really quite amazed. I regged an account and browse around a bit only to find this. Does Likita really deserve all this negativity from you people? Is the thing which she had done so bad that it's justifiable to be mad about even months afterwards?

I think it's not.

Remember:

"An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind."

Ok, what about you all stop posting your so-hated meaningless posts and just sit back and watch, *how* will Likita behave ? You're starting another flame war, arent you, eh ?..

and if my post number is bothering you so much - well, im trying to reg a new account, if its what will make you happy..

Shao:
I prefer you leave altogether. However, if you insist on staying, I prefer you keep this account, so everyone can see why no one pays any attention to you. Besides, your grammar and spelling skills will make your new account immediately recognizable.

Ingham:
I have no hatred towards likita. But, people like her turned this from an informative, sometimes interesting discussion about gaming into a flame war. I, as well as many substantive contributers, left because of this. So now, I'm supposed to welcome her back with open arms just because she is "bored" elsewhere?

Likita:
If you were serious about apologizing and asking to come back, why lace your request with the "moreso than before" qualifier? Either as a joke or as a flippant remark, it demonstrates a lack of sincerity.

seen a nice little post named 'flames', Mason ?...

speaking of 'people recognizing me' - ive never even thought about hiding myself, and speaking of my... unjoust.. number of posts - werent at least half of them flames, flamed completely in defence against some people here ?..

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time. LikitaRenn speaks up, asking to come back and claiming she'll be 'better than before,' then the spam wars start again.\

I stopped posting, though not reading, a while back, simply because the forums lost any semblance of a real resource for MUDders the day the spam started. Recently a few good posts have come about... then this garbage.

LikitaRenn
--=--=--=--=--=--
Come back if you like. If this is what you bring along with you, though, I doubt you'll ever be welcomed with open arms... instead I find it highly likely you'll be chased off with closed fists.

Ingham
--=--=--=--=--=--
You've shown yourself to be a bigot, a racist, an idiot, and a person worthy of any contempt and hatred you garner. Your opinions are worth about as much as the dung stuck to my bootheel.

Shao
--=--=--=--=--=--
You seemed to disappear from the spam, and then you come back to do this...

You've all been at least given a second chance... some more than that. I suggest you don't ruin them.

Good day to you all.

I agree with Orion.  You three are only the most recent of spammers.  No one really cares why you do it, just the fact you do and need to stop.  Although racism, sexism and general hate does not warrant a return in my mind, no one needs to be around that.

Like Orion, short of replying to discussion envolving Orion and Brody, myself and others become discouraged with the direction of many of the conversations and short of reading what is there, do nothing more and possibly limit thier viewing of this site entirely.

Spamming discourages new viewers and then turns a site into a flaming, spiraling heap falling into Hell.  I would rather just utilize the forums at since there is some actual control there.  Abusers should apologize to Synozeer and the forum managers for making thier jobs so much harder!

If you judge people merely by words typed out in an online forum, how on earth do you expect others to interpret this? The very least one can do is show some respect and resort to the past when nescesarry. I don't recall insulting anyone on here lately, nor do I recall spamming the forums.

Your post is clearly hypocritic, calling me names and worthy of hatred, while I am clearly not the offending party here. Your hatred and biased views of other are wrong Orion. By saying those things you yourself aren't better then what you are saying I am.

Now, if we can get past the childish "I'm not going to like you and never will!" bits, I'm very much willing to initiate an PM/Email dialogue that would stop this silliness. Just take these online forums less serious. These forums are not worth the hate and bile that's being thrown back and forth.

You tried to give advice on how to be 'brotherly' to others. I simply wanted to point out how absolutely ASININE that is, considering the source.

As for judging you... online forum... text based... judging you by your words... yeah, seems about right to me. COME ON! How the hell do you expect me to judge you? The only way to judge someone online is by their actions... you've shown yourself to be a spammer, a racist, a bigot, and an idiot. I have no respect for you, or anything you have to say on the subject of 'what is and isn't nice.'

The hypocrit calling someone a hypocrit, again is quite asinine. If you'd like to be a useful and contributing member, feel free. If you only came back to be a waste of space and start more arguments, I'm sure we'd all rather see you gone.

As for my statements, I stated the truth, pure and simple. A racist, bigotted, spamming, idiotic person has no right to be preaching to anyone about what is or is not right. Once you learn that, we'll all be able to get a long a bit better.

Simple, empty words from an unknown person who does not know me one bit do not hurt me, nor affect me nor make me think twice. I'll just ignore you and your insults from now on.

However you feel like talking to me in a reasonable way without namecalling, feel free to message me and I'm sure that if we both behave our ages we can get this silly thing over with.

Mmm.

Glancing at this thread, I figure I might as well chip in with my 2 cents. I've refrained from commenting untill now.

Ingham: You, sir, are a twink. Now, go to wherever it is that twinks go, and leave us who do not spam be.

Shao: You are a spammer. You still remain a spammer (You have more then twice the posts of the most-posting non-spammer of the boards) even after all this time. You, as well, are a twink. Leave us be, for all that is good and holy in this world.

Likita: I agree entirely with Robbert. See my comments on Shao - just because you took a "time-out" and promise to obey the rules a bit better this time around does not mean that most of us will want to see your face.

Personally, I think all 3 of you should leave these boards for eternity if you are not going to bother to straighten up. You act like small children, for crissake. Take a cue from Seth - leave the contributors be, and go find a BB that actually wants your spammage crap. This community does not want your spam.

-D

mm... 'sir' Dulan.. you call me a 'spammer' ..
now, maybe I was, maybe I wasnt.. but, show me any of my 'spam' which's more recent then a month or two ?.. well, good luck looking for it, it shoulda take you some time, I think...

I rarely post in FLAME-like threads such as this... but I feel compelled to do so this time.

If you read the entire thread as I just did. You ALL are flaming each other. A reasonable question was asked and it became a flame thread yet again.

I am finding less and less enjoyment from these threads when even the moderators joins in the fray and resorts to Flames in the thread.

Maybe, you all should sit back and take a deep breath and get on with life.  Orion, letting these guys get under your skins makes you about as immature as you are claiming they are. As a poster in these forums who only posts when I have something worthwhile to contribute, I find the actions of all you pitiful.

Just my opinion, but life is too short to keep this crap up.

Brianna is dead right, it seems most posters are taking Likitha's rather innocent post as an excuse to flame her and each other. Pretty much the same thing that happened last time too, as far as I can remember.

And another thing; is it really polite to Synozer to use this thread as an excuse for promoting other Discussion Forums, like a couple of posters did?

On the contrary, I do not think I flamed anyone. I merely said it was people such as likita who drove me, and many other people, away from TMS because of how spammy and utterly-without-content the boards became. Only recently have we have more content than spam, and should the spam outweight the content again, I think TMS would lose more posters than before.

Brianna:
If someone asks if they can come back, is it flaming if they get highly negative responses? I don't think so. Telling someone your opinion, when they ask a question that requires or even questions that opinion, is not flaming.

As for my dislike of Ingham, he has proven himself to be racist and bigotted, and in doing so he personally insulted my dead grandfather. I have no respect for him, nor will I ever... and the fact that he tried to give advice on how people should be treated strikes me as the most asinine thing I've ever seen. If my showing my dislike of someone who insulted a deceased member of my family makes me immature, so be it.

So far the only flames I've seen in this post are my remarks to Ingham... and even those weren't so much flames as they were statements of my opinions about him, and his actions.

Molly:
No, it's not too polite to do so... however, this site is about promoting MUD sites... and forums about MUDs are MUD sites. It also demonstrates another point. I set up my forums on MUD Planet (which Synozeer knows about, btw) due to my growing disdain for the smegma that discussions here have evolved into. There are the occasional posts that show promise as a good discussion, but as of late I've seen very few.

Everyone:
Now, I think the point of these posts has been made. LikitaRenn did ask a simple question, and it has resulted in an escalating number of posts that have started down the same path (and yes, it is partially my fault) the last went. So, I apologize to those who had to wade through the pointlessness that is this post.

I believe the whole point of this topic has been addressed. If any of you have any further statements feel free. I am, however, done. My opinions have been made, and my stance on the subject quite clear.

Good day to you all.

Your infantile hatred never ceases to amaze or amuse me.

Yes that's a flame, a mild one at that. I'm not going to put much effort in something petty like this "flame war".

However, I sympathise to the other people who think this thread is utter rubbish and hence should be closed. This thread has served it's use well, with only 2 or 3 people disagreeing with LikitaRenn coming back, an equal ammount welcoming her back and about 700+ people who didn't comment on it. Hence why from my point of view, Likita is more then welcome again.

Now Orion, be a good mod and lock this thread because you supposedly don't endorse flame wars and as you have read, people are tired of this thread.

My god (and I say that not having one)... what has happened to this place? What do I see? A born illiterate[1], a flamer, a repentant (?) flamer, and the worst mod I've ever seen on a board[2]. And supporting cast. Shut this thread down. Delete it. Pretend it never happened.

Kas.

[1]Yes, yes. I know.
[2]you have a 10-PAGE FLAME-FEST PINNED FFS!

Shao, you do realize that sentence implies that anyone that is born Russian is also born illiterate?

Now, onto the thread. Ingham is Seth. I don't care what BS he pulls out of his ass, or what.

Ingham - You were BANNED from the boards, for gods sakes. You have no right to suggest anything to -anyone-, period. You have no right to correct anyone on manners. You have no right to flame anyone - period. Get my point? You were the first, I believe, public well-known ban on TMS. You have no right at all to correct anyone on anything relating to spam, flames, or what have you.

-D

In that case, I must conclude that you do it on purpose, what with having the correct spelling for "illiterate" on the very same page.

Kas.

I fully agree with Kastagaar's post and views and like him, I agree that this thread should either be closed or deleted and not my single, individual posts. You can delete my posts but not my opinion...

Well, I might be not very well in... english grammars.. But word literacy isn't just grammars, if you didn't knew...
But I didn't posted this thing because of this.. I just have to correct myself a bit.. Not all who posted here are flamers, no.. I don't think that Molly O'Hara is, or Brianna, or Likita .. maybe the latter spammed, but not flamed, that's for sure.
Period.

PS. maybe we should create a poll - 'should this post be closed ?' ...

*shrugs* The foremost reason I no longer regularly come to TMS is because of the actions of Likita, Shao and Seth. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Now I thought Likita was asking for forgiveness last time I was around here in May or so, but perhaps I was mistaken. *shrugs again*

####, fan, impact.

This isn't even funny anymore.

I agree. This post is closed. If anyone would like to continue bickering (note, I'm not one of them), take it to PMs.