Nah, I didn't answer your question, as I explained earlier, because that would be Vryce's decision to make. Since I am not Vryce, I cannot answer for him. Despite the fact that he is my husband, we do not share the same mind, and sometimes not even the same opinions on things. Did you bother to email him to ask his opinion? Probably not.

In addition, I didn't answer because every single thing I (or anyone else for that matter) writes on this forum can and most likely will be used against me somewhere down the road. I don't want to state something now and come back to bite me in the butt later if something of this nature would come to light again.

The most amusing thing about this is that the people who are so indignant about an alleged misconduct on the part of Medievia are not the people who are the supposed victims. Rather it is a random scattering of people who take every post with the word "Medievia" as flamebait no matter how intelligently written it is, or what it may have to contribute.
The bottom line is this. Until the issue is decided in a court of law (and according to the Diku team they don't care enough to cough up the money for that), any speculation here is just that, speculation.
I don't know about in other countries, but in the U.S. no forum can convict. No evidence posted on the Web out of context can be used as evidence in a proceeding.
Try to enjoy the boards people. Be civil and polite. Most people prefer to read posts that have intelligent dialog not nasty insult after insult after insult based on hearsay and snippets.
Everyone who posts here obviously has a lot to contribute to the community. The flames and those who are posting them are obvious to everyone no matter what side of the Medievia argument you come down on.  It's the same few people over and over again.

No, the only amusing thing (in a rather sad way) is the number people who are under the false belief that those who violate other people's mud licences don't affect them personally.

Ever tried dealing with people who remove the credits from their mud who, when cornered, give the excuse "If Medievia can do it, why can't I"? I have - many times.

Ever spoken to other mud developers who are working on really amazing projects, but they tell you they've no plans to ever release their work "because of muds like Medievia"? I have - many times.

Ever played a Diku3 derivative? Do you know why not?

Quote from Jeena:
"The bottom line is this. Until the issue is decided in a court of law (and according to the Diku team they don't care enough to cough up the money for that), any speculation here is just that, speculation. "

Do you even know who or what "Diku" is?  FYI: Diku refers to a university in Denmark & the Diku code that was developed by their students & was released to the public to use for free, the only stipulations were: 1. Give the Diku developers credit, & 2. Do not charge money to play the game (which includes pay for perks).  Now that university, who owns the rights, doesn't have the funds to pursue legal action in the US vs Medievia, which Medievia counts on, else they would probably lose if forced to show their code in court.  What did happen was the original Diku developers now refuse to release any future code versions due to the Medievia theft, which is what KaVir is referring to when he says "have you ever played a Diku3 derivative?"

By the way Jeena, try doing a little research before posting that there is no evidence...

Well, it's Medievia IV code, as confirmed by signed statements by Michael A. Krause (Vryce):




Code comparisons prove that Medievia IV is a derivative work, created by starting with DIKU code and modifying it significantly.  (No one has claimed that Medievia V was written from scratch, or by any method other than being developed by modifying Medievia IV code.)  This makes it also a derivative work.  See the following link for the definition of a derivative work under US law:



A number of code comparisons are available here, with statistics accompanying them:



One I found particularly amusing was this comparison of a simple file:



Exactly the same, except Medievia took the time to rip out the author's names and put their own in.

How do you explain this, Soleil?

Apparently you haven't done your own research. If you remember a while back, The_Logos posted a thread on suing Medievia. I don't have the time to search for that thread, but he basically stated that the DIKU license didn't specifically bar people from collecting revenue on it. In essence, it was a very poorly written license.

So if they were to go to court over it, then the DIKU team and the university might not necessarily prevail.

By the way, a university not having the money to pursue legal action in the U.S. is absolute hogwash.

Frankly, Vryce isn't the one polluting what used to be one of my favorite discussion sites. His past actions speak for themselves - I really can't be arsed to waste any of my time on someone like that when I don't have to.

What, rip off any other university projects lately?

And in case you're feeling slightly abused that nobody seems to be taking your word for anything, well - that's the cost of selling your integrity, I guess.

No offence, but you don't seem to understand anarchism. Anarchists are not opposed to society. Anarchists are not morons running around in masks on throwing rocks at windows. Those are just morons. Anarchists simply believe that the initiation of force or the threat of force is morally wrong. I agree with them.

I don't believe that the validity of ethical or moral matters has anything to do with agreeing with the majority. Being part of the majority doesn't make you any more or less Right.

Anyway, you do realize much of the world pretty clearly doesn't respect intellectual property at all. Much of Asia, for instance, where in some places 90%+ of all software is pirated, 90%+ of all DVDs are pirated, etc.

--matt

Whoops, I had written this post before realizing PinkFloyd said everything I wanted to say. Deleted!

--matt

But it's not, really.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with a decent knowledge of code who's seen some of the code in question (I believe the links are elsewhere on this page) that Medevia is a DIKU derivative. This isn't an opinion.

Whether or not the DIKU license holds up in court, it clearly communicates the intent of the DIKUMUD team in this regard. They had fairly generous intentions about how their work was used, and these intentions were not respected.

Whether or not any of this stood up in court, Vryce (and anyone associated with Med as accomplices) did something wrong and aren't willing to admit to it.

Saying that people can't judge those actions as wrong and react based on them unless a court makes a judgement is like saying if you molest my sister I'm not allowed to shun you and generally treat you like trash unless you get convicted for it.

Although you should really keep in mind that what Medievia did/is doing really isn't on the level of sexual molestation.

from PinkFloyd:
"Apparently you haven't done your own research.  If you remember a while back, The_Logos posted a thread on suing Medievia.  I don't have the time to search for that thread, but he basically stated that the DIKU license didn't specifically bar people from collecting revenue on it.  In essence, it was a very poorly written license."

Sorry, but the day I take The_Logos word on anything re Medievia & code theft is the same day winged monkeys start flyin' out of my butt!!

Wait, this sounds familiar. Some malicious coder illegally stealing the codebase of Medievia. No, don't tell me. I have this strong sense of deja-vu...didn't the coder start his own game with it?

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you previously misunderstood those links, because anyone who did understand their content would logically conclude that Medievia is a DIKU derivative, as per US law as cited.

Elsewhere on these boards you have claimed that Medievia was not a derviative because you've made many changes to the DIKU codebase, but the definition clearly shows that such a claim is insufficient, and that you are still a DIKU derivative and subject to their license. Also, that you owe the authors public recognition via the 'credits' command (as required by the license you are thusly bound by), and should cease referring to Medievia's code as an original work.

Are you willing to publically concede that you and your husband are guilty of plagiarism, Soleil? (You may not feel it's very important, but owning up to that much would be a nice start.) If not, could you explain how what you are doing is not plagiarism?

Odd that you clearly haven't read the license yet are castigating other people for not doing their research.

--matt

You know, honestly, unless someone from the DIKU team (or the school for that matter) signs a Power of Attorney to a local US resident to take up the matter of the license and operating breech against Medievia, their actions are going to continue.

If you want to make a case about it, everyone here should contact the DIKU team or even perhaps the College (), see about what it takes for getting a Power of Attorney letter or statement and finally finding a US lawyer to take up the matter.

-- Michael

While, in the past I have been vocal against my ire for Med. I want to make a couple of comments.

The DIKU Group set a precedent when they decided to Initiate a Lawsuit against SOE, over Everquest. It seems that they are more then happy to relinquish legal rights to a lawsuit, with simple sworn statements stating that it's not based on the code. It's no longer an issue of whether the DIKU creators have the money to sue. They no longer have the will to deal with the community. Do a simple google search for any of them. Most of them have moved on to far greater things.

There are many gauges of character in this community. And there are many people who have upheld and encouraged an ethical code to the community. As these people left the community (Many taking the hobby to the next step and becoming professional) the Hobbyist were left behind. There was a time, when unsolicited contribution of thoughts and ideas, self policing, add proven ability were the gauges. (MUD-DEV)

Raph Koster, Richard Bartle, and Jessica Mulligan just to name a few. Yui and Eiz, have pointed out that part of their decision over at Mudlab was Signal to Noise ratios. Not to speak for them, but it's that concept that contribution is the core to the community, and when members do not contribute selfishlessly, but take from the community they cause harm. It Angers people. No one on either side has extended an olive branch that the other is willing to consider. And they refuse to budge until the otherside does.

Meh, those are just my attempts to insert my opinions in a way that attempts to be non-accusatory to either side.

This is not meant as a dig, but as a serious question:

Soliel, if you are not able to or willing to explain certain actions (that have or could have happened) that your company may take in regards to Stolen Code (Whether you stole code, or someone stole your code), why when I follow the link to the How Med got started, it directs us to email you if we have questions regarding the issues on the page? Which are obviously meant to try and clarify the companies stance on the issues? And why does Vryce continue his silence? If you say he is willing to clarify facts, I'm sure he could see the benefit in stepping foward and being pro-active.

I realize this. However, that point is a bit of a red herring here: this debate is not about the moral propriety of intellectual property. It's about the propriety of theft and misrepresentation. Simply because some societies don't recognize ownership of intellectual property, or even any ownership at all, does not invalidate or lessen the moral impropriety of theft in those, like ours, that do.

The simple fact is, we live in a society that recognizes private ownership of private property. The evidence is overwhelming that Soleil and Vryce have committed theft, or at the very least systemic and long-standing misrepresentation, and have profited from these doings.

I am getting the impression that we're really in agreement, save when it comes to the threshold issue of being convinced that the theft actually took place - based on the evidence I've seen I'm quite convinced (the code that underwent the code audit may have been obtained illegally, but Vryce issued a signed statement under penalty of perjury claiming that it was indeed Medievia IV code in order to effect the takedown). You're certainly free to be a bit more skeptical - but you aren't actually arguing that if they did what they're accused of they haven't done anything wrong, are you?

Ok, let me try and answer as much in this post as possible.  This thread is way too long as it is, so this will most likely be my last post in it.

No, and no.  As I stated earlier many many times now, this is Vryce's "thing" so to speak.  Yes I stand by him in his decisions and his stance, but no I will not speak for him.  I've provided the link to our webpage that explains his stance, and I've provided his email address to which you can write.  I doubt anyone has or will.

They simply don't care.  They've told Vryce that many times, even back in 1992 when he sent them many fixes to their code and they told him they didn't care to have them.

He doesn't visit these forums, nor does he care to.  He is much too busy developing and running the game.  He knows I visit here frequently and usually doesn't understand why I even take part.  If you were to email him, you would get a response.  Most likely not something you want to read or that you will like reading, but he simply does not have the time to spend on the forums.  He does not care about being pro-active.  Medievia is successful, it will continue to be successful, despite the handful of people on this forum who would like it to be otherwise.  He does not feel he needs to answer to the audience of this forum.  If you want a response from him, email him.  Enough said about that.

As for me... I like this forum, I visit it regularly just like all of you do.  I like reading the posts and responding and defending Medievia.  I like the ever-continuing race for votes.  However, unfortunately, I don't always have the knowledge to answer your questions without getting myself in over my head.  I've explained to you all over and over that I cannot answer your questions as I am not Vryce.  You may see that as weak or playing hard to get, but that's the way it is.  I do not want to speak out of my realm of experience.

Everyone that is involved in the "Mudworld" so to speak plays their part in the game.  The players of our games play the games, the gods/imps play the roles of running, developing and managing the games and some of the head imps play the game of competition against other MUDs and acquiring new players.  I love my part in the world of Medievia.  I love being the marketing director and getting our game new players.  I love speaking to new players on the game and finding out their backgrounds in gaming/MUDs.  More and more they are coming to Medievia from topmudsites, despite all the negativity surrounding the game.  So, I think I lost my point, but basically even though you all hound on Medievia and our background, I still love being a part of it all.

And, you can think and believe what you will about Medievia, Vryce, me, our integrity and so forth.  Nothing is going to change your feelings, ever.  Even if we were sued and DIKU won and you all got what you want, you would still hate Medievia.  Even if the DIKU team publically stated they don't care what we are doing, you would still hate Medievia.  We will always be the ugly duckling of the Mud world.  So be it.  I know who I am and you think you know who I am, but in the end the feelings of a few posters on an Internet forum are not going to ruin my life nor change the fact that there is much more to life than the beliefs of a handful of MUD admins posted on a MUD forum.

So, again, I'm sorry I couldnt answer your questions.  Hopefully you will take the time to write to Vryce if you are so interested in knowing his stance.

1) Multiple people have assembled detailed claims of why you have committed plagiarism. Vryce can't make time for a public answer? Sweeping it under the rug and pretending Vryce needs this thread typed and privately emailed or he just can't find the time... is nothing less than an obvious attempt to slink away from the mess you created, and a clumsy attempt to bury the issue after being publically exposed as a fraud.

2) You don't get to use the "But I don't know anything!" defense, because you've come here on multiple occasions and posted (smugly) about how Medievia isn't plagiarism. If you are the uninformed innocent bystander you're now trying to pass yourself off as, you should not have made those claims. Otherwise, be prepared to back them up, or tap Vryce on the shoulder and get him to fill in where you aren't capable.

I recognize the plagiarism in question isn't your doing, and that you feel obligated to defend Vryce regardless of all the things he did. I suspect you know, as anyone who has read the definitions and code comparisons would, that you're running a DIKU derivative and are ignoring the license. It's sad that Vryce is hanging you out to dry by not owning up to his actions and sticking you with his public relations problems.

But hey, you took your twenty pieces of silver from the community. You're the public relations figurehead for Medievia, and this community is part of the public. Got answers?

I already answered all your questions to the best of my ability.  Vryce does not care about posting to this forum.  As I said in my previous post, he does not feel he needs to answer to you here, or probably anywhere.  If you want answers from him you will have to contact him directly.  I've said that multiple times now.  Keeping at me with the same questions isn't going to lead me to answering them.

Excellent! Then do yourself a favor. Print out the DIKU license, take it to a lawyer with some background in intellectual property law, and find out what he has to day. I bet you will be sorely disappointed.

I am getting the impression that Soleil is a person who operates off of her feelings on matters, I keep reading the word feel in many places.

Soleil, I apologize if anyone has hurt your feelings or if you have felt personally attacked or threatened.

A lot of people in the mudding community are feeling badly about what they have heard. They are angry or sad that Vryce has originally built his mud upon diku code and is not thankful. This is like a parent named diku raising a child Medevia, then when the child has outgrown his parents, leaving in spite with no appreciation for their efforts.

As I see it, these members of the community are trying, much like certain religions do, to bring about something like "Honor your parents" or "Honor your beginnings".

I can email Vryce and post a response here if that's needed.

Hi Soleil, I composed an email per your request. I hope this helps you out. Here are the contents:

Hi Vryce,

This is Xotl from the mud Accursed Lands on which I am the head Admin.

There has been a discussion recently on the Top Mud Sites forum regarding Medievia and the removal of the Diku credits.

I understand that you have recoded your mud several times to the point that there is very little to no recognizable code left in it from the original works.

However, there are several of us to which it seems clear cut that the mud is still a derivative work, per US law, as per the definition on the following web page which I have copied after the link for your convenience.



A ''derivative work'' is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a ''derivative work''.

I am curious as to why you felt the need to remove the diku credits in the first place and to not honor a team of people which contributed to the success of your original muds, and I am sure your original muds contributed to the success of your current mud. I have looked around but have not seen a statement by you on this anywhere.

Please understand that I am not saying that "Medievia is a DIKU mud.", as you have stated it is not on your "How Medievia Got Started" web page. I understand you have made extensive modifications to it and that it has turned into a work unto itself. What I am saying is that it still appears to be a DIKU derivative work, they contributed to your success, and thus I hold the belief that they are worthy of recognition as such.

I am curious what the harm would be of putting a couple names somewhere on your title screen to thank them would be? I would think that it would resolve your public relations issues.

Thanks for your time in answering my questions,

Xotl

Soleil wrote: June 08 2005,08:22
At least the last part of that statement is of course not true.
Sure, the flames will probably continue,  if you plan to just go ahead advertising on these boards and even bragging a bit about all the new players you get from the bad publicity, (like Vryce also used to do before he allegedly stopped reading boards).

But there is a very solid and simple alternative way, which has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

If you showed some remorse for what was done in the past, if you put the Diku credits back on the log-in screen, and removed the lies and the insults to the Diku team from the website, and then struck some kind of deal with the Diku team about the licence, then would have mended a bit of the harm your husband did in the past. Then twink mudowners could not point at Medievia as an example of how you can steal someone’s work and make a profit from it without any repercussions from the society. Then you would have shown some civil courage that would most likely make the community willing to forgive and forget the past. And then the flames would stop.

Regrettably it seems pretty clear by now that this is not a route that you are going to choose. And as a consequence the flames will probably rekindle every time you post to advertise your game. And maybe you will end up withdrawing from the boards, like Vryce already did. And maybe you will also regret that you didn’t take that other route, when offered to you. At least some day in the future when your kids get old enough to enter the internet and find out for themselves about the nature of mommy’s and daddy’s little business.

But in any case, don’t try to paint yourself out as an innocent victim. You are not a victim, and you are certainly not innocent.

And we'll all be very interested to read Vryce's response to Xotl's e-mail.

If they admit that they are, in fact, a deriv of Diku, then they will be admitting, due to the wording of the license, that they are violating it.

That's why they can't admit that they're a deriv. No Diku = no license to break.

The moment the credits re-appear on their game is the moment the bruhaha rises again pointing fingers and saying, "AHA! See? You ARE a diku! Now you have to stop being commercial!"

They've painted themselves into a corner.

Not really. They can adopt Matt's argument- they're a DIKU derivative, but the license doesn't mean they can't use their present business model. (Either because it's the copyright holder's responsibility to sue them, or because they can weasel around the precise wording of the license.)

In contrast, no one outside of the Happy Medievia Couple is claiming they aren't a DIKU derivative. It's the weakest part of a very weak larger argument of weakness.

I think going from "breach of contract and plagiarism" to "breach of contract" would help their public relations problems to some degree.

As usual, you miss the effin' point, which seems to be a problem in this modern age.  I don't care if the DIKU license is flawed, or why DIKU hasn't sued.  The point is what Medievia did was morally & ethically WRONG, period...end of line.

Maybe you subscribe to the "If it feels good & I can get away with it, do it" code of ethics like Medievia, but I don't.

You only care about the morals and ethics aspect of it Guruplayer? Well let me refresh your apparently very-short memory. Here's your original retort to Jeena

Where in the #### do you state that your care about the morals and ethics of Medievia stealing code? No, your retort to Jeena was that if DIKU had the money, they'd take Medievia to court and win. No mention of any moral arguments against Medievia! You even had the gall to tell Jeena to do "research" when you yourself had done none!


So apparently, you quickly change your mind to fit your needs. Before it was Medievia definitely violating the license, now it's Medievia is morally wrong. You have been exposed as two-faced.

Yep I was right, you do miss the effin point!

The problem is that the Valhalla licence applies to a different codebase - presumably one derived from Diku, but from an earlier version. There were discussions some years ago about re-releasing Diku under a different licence, but a member of the FSF said such a thing wouldn't be possible without getting permission from every contributor. As many of these contributors have vanished into the mists of time, getting such permission was obviously not possible, and as a result it was determined that the licence conditions couldn't be changed.

In the case of Medievia, the issue is further complicated by the fact that they're based on Merc, which is a Diku derivative. Even if you were to overlook the FSF's claims about the contributors, the fact still remains that the Diku team have no rights over Merc.

However I do agree that from a goodwill perspective it would be a fine gesture, particularly if they also restored the Diku and Merc credits and apologised for lying to everyone for the last decade. I do wonder what sort of knock-on affect such a legally-invalid special-case licence would have on other Diku muds though...

xotl,

Any reply yet? Any whatsoever?

No reply from Vryce yet.

Don't hold your breath waiting....

While we all hold our breath waiting for Vryce's response to Xotl's very polite e-mail, here is an interesting question:

At about the same time that Medievia was allowed back on the TMC list, (or somewhat later), it seems to have been removed from the Mudmagic listing. Since Mudmagic used to promote Medievia rather aggressively before, it would be interesting to know what made Kyndig take this decision.

We should have set up a pool for how long Vryce would take to answer xotl's questions, including several versions of "Never", like "Curt email dismissing need to reply." or "Soleil claims Vryce's email doesn't always work." The winner could get some "unaccounted for" Munch paintings, or an autographed picture of Jayson Blair.

There is much difference between imitating a man and counterfeiting him.
- Benjamin Franklin

For those in the pool, "Respond to a reasonable question within 10 days." is now out.

Well, to be fair, it's not really a "reasonable question." It is rather an inquisition, as he is no doubt aware. You guys are asking him largely so that you can use whatever answer he gives (and it won't matter what answer he gives) to further attack him, so why should he play that game with you?
--matt

Two possibilities:

1) Vryce's position on derviative works is indefensible, and he knows it. He keeps silent because saying anything would just call attention to his plagiarism.

In this scenario, what is the problem with people calling him out as guilty? (And cowardly, to boot.) What is wrong with asking that he do the decent thing and restore credit to the people who generated that code?

2) Vryce has a reasonable explanation for why his game is not a derivative under US law, or that it is a derivative but it's not plagiarism, or something similar.

If this was the scenario, why would he keep silent? Wouldn't he want to clear his name, since people are stating well-researched claims that he's a plagiarist?

He has a posted answer, but it's clearly not compatible with the definition of a derivative work under US law. Maybe he's got some other explanation in mind. If so, shouldn't he post it?

Maybe the reason Vryce doesn't answer is because he doesn't feel like it.  What do you want him to say?  I for one am glad he doesn't say anything, I couldn't care less.  At least we won't end up with a Derek Smart on our hands.  And frankly, I don't think he's going to be comin out here to say something anytime soon.  Him admitting he stole codebase would be like an idiot admitting he was stupid, it just doesn't happen.  Who's the last murderer you know who plead guilty? (No, I'm not comparing Vryce to an idiot or a murderer)

Easy solution:

If you agree with Medievia's actions and don't have a problem with others (ab)using code, you should make your own code fully available to the entire community. If you're unwilling to do that, then you should reconsider your hypocrisy and quit defending those thieves.

There. Enough said.

Take care,

Jason

the_logos June 19 2005,19:14
It did stop Soleil from spamming the boards with her plugs about Medievia, which was one of the goals. Now we just need you to stop writing these lengthy rants to their defense, which just fuel the flames.


And I still would like to know how come Medievia suddenly disappeared from the Mudmagic listing after Soleil more or less admitted to the theft, with about the same arguments that you use about why you like to break various laws yourself in your post.
Does Kyndig monitor the TMS boards? Or is it just coincidence?

Or, you could just stop flaming them. *gasp*


Why post here asking that? Why not just mail Kyndig or post on Mudmagic asking him?

--matt

Who are you talking to here? I'm assuming it's not me, as I specifically said that I would never defend code-theft. Of course, I'd also never defend stealing any sort of IP, and there's plenty of that going on in many MUDs on TMS. On the other hand, I've also come to feel that if the IP owners don't feel harmed enough to do anything about it (diku, star wars, etc) then why should I care?

Your post just seemed to come out of nowhere and I'm wondering who it is actually directed to. I certainly would have a problem with people using my code, because we could suffer actual significant harm from it. People could lose their jobs, be unable to pay their mortgages, etc. If, on the other hand, I suffered only mild ego harm, like the DIKU authors did, then I doubt I'd care very much....which is pretty much the stance the DIKU authors seem to have taken, since they dropped the issue years ago.

--matt

Chalk it up to being sick of seeing this topic on the forums featuring rationalizations to defend unethical and immoral acts.

Do you approve of Medievia's actions?  Yes or no.  Same goes for the others that made up excuses as to why Medievia shouldn't be held accountable by whatever means possible for their act of theft.

Anyone that doesn't believe that taking something that isn't yours and claiming it as your own when you are aware of to whom ownership belongs as well as their will regarding it.  We all know who created the DIKU code and we know their conditions for its use.  That known, Medievia chose to steal.  Making excuses for people who deliberately committed an immoral act leaves a person guilty of approving of such an act.

Harm is harm, and committing an act against another when you know they do not approve of that act is just as immoral regardless of the degree of harm it causes.  To put it only in economic terms just shows that you approve of theft except under specific conditions.  That's the same as saying you oppose murder but approve of attempted murder as long as it fails and no injury occured.

So, back to my question:  do you approve of what Medievia did? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Take care,

Jason

I'll answer your question myself: No I don't approve of it, but I just don't care anymore.  There's nothing I can do about it.  I just want to stop talking about Medievia.  All these mindless drones who say "M3DI3VIA DIDN'T ST3AL CODE BECAUSE I'M IGN0R4NT!!!1R0FLMAOLOO00OLLLLLLLLL!!!11" are drawn to discussions like this.  Perhaps, like a moth and a lamp, if you turn off the lamp the moth goes wherever it was going.  So maybe if we stopped talking about Medievia, the mindless drones will go away.  After all, if a kid with ADD gets bored, he will go run with scissors or something.