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Azeroth · 01-06-2004, 11:13 PM

Man this is great stuff. I guess I have opened a can of worms with the whole permadeath thing, but I think it is at least partially relevant to the topic of class vs. classless systems. I think many of these things tie into one another. In fact I think of one element is left out it is almost a puzzle missing a piece. Anyway...what I wanted to say.

Permadeath - I think Shadowfyr has some good points in relation to this whole "lich scenario"...but then again we have to consider something. Powergaming in the past has had the attitude of "Oh, it's a 300 year old Elder Wyrm!? No problem, I have a +29 DragonSlayer sword"...powergaming has conditioned players not to fear for their characters...heck let's try it. If we die we only lose half our experience...no sweat. But think about RL here. Ok Shadowfyr...you have the opportunity to go seek out a group of 50 seasoned navy seals and try to kill them all. Oh and if you wish you can take 5 of your closest friends...and we will give you a gun or two. Do you really think you would want to do this!? This is why I think permadeath really makes a difference in a class vs. classless system AND in relation to RP. Permadeath makes a player *cherish* and really focus on how their character would react. This also affects what skills they would need. The classless system we are working on not only allows them to choose what skills they want to help define their character, but they can also choose *where* to gain these skills. This fact alone allows for more RP and more affects on storyline down the road. The chance your character could die has to always linger in your mind. We have already planned to encourage party play on this mud. And honestly there is much less focus on combat and more player controlled cities, interaction, and so forth. If things go as planned there will be much more players interacting and RP'ing the world out than players interacting with NPC's. I think that is the biggest problem with "RP Enforced" muds today (but again that is another thread lol).

As far as skills and how they should be done. I guess you can go any number of ways with this. Mierza makes some compelling points and I will have to chew on them a bit. I believe that overall...a character needs to have the ability to learn any skill at any time. *But* they also have to *work* to get their skills up there. As the chef takes years to perfect his pizza technique (and to decide which flour makes the best dough, which are the best toppings, and what temperature to proof the dough...etc.), an arcane spellcaster must also spend years perfecting his/her technique (deciding which spell components to use, enunciation of the proper words, etc.). I think these are good ideas and I hope that more than just my team can come up with some systems and truly inspires our players. Thanks for all of the insight.

01-06-2004, 11:13 PM	#53
Azeroth Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 69	Man this is great stuff. I guess I have opened a can of worms with the whole permadeath thing, but I think it is at least partially relevant to the topic of class vs. classless systems. I think many of these things tie into one another. In fact I think of one element is left out it is almost a puzzle missing a piece. Anyway...what I wanted to say. Permadeath - I think Shadowfyr has some good points in relation to this whole "lich scenario"...but then again we have to consider something. Powergaming in the past has had the attitude of "Oh, it's a 300 year old Elder Wyrm!? No problem, I have a +29 DragonSlayer sword"...powergaming has conditioned players not to fear for their characters...heck let's try it. If we die we only lose half our experience...no sweat. But think about RL here. Ok Shadowfyr...you have the opportunity to go seek out a group of 50 seasoned navy seals and try to kill them all. Oh and if you wish you can take 5 of your closest friends...and we will give you a gun or two. Do you really think you would want to do this!? This is why I think permadeath really makes a difference in a class vs. classless system AND in relation to RP. Permadeath makes a player cherish and really focus on how their character would react. This also affects what skills they would need. The classless system we are working on not only allows them to choose what skills they want to help define their character, but they can also choose where to gain these skills. This fact alone allows for more RP and more affects on storyline down the road. The chance your character could die has to always linger in your mind. We have already planned to encourage party play on this mud. And honestly there is much less focus on combat and more player controlled cities, interaction, and so forth. If things go as planned there will be much more players interacting and RP'ing the world out than players interacting with NPC's. I think that is the biggest problem with "RP Enforced" muds today (but again that is another thread lol). As far as skills and how they should be done. I guess you can go any number of ways with this. Mierza makes some compelling points and I will have to chew on them a bit. I believe that overall...a character needs to have the ability to learn any skill at any time. But they also have to work to get their skills up there. As the chef takes years to perfect his pizza technique (and to decide which flour makes the best dough, which are the best toppings, and what temperature to proof the dough...etc.), an arcane spellcaster must also spend years perfecting his/her technique (deciding which spell components to use, enunciation of the proper words, etc.). I think these are good ideas and I hope that more than just my team can come up with some systems and truly inspires our players. Thanks for all of the insight.