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Seraphina · 10-07-2002, 03:22 PM

I can't imagine leaving DR, but I am checking out three new muds that I would not have known about if I had not come to this site. I know other DR players that are checking out games too. It isn't that we don't like the game that we play. It's that visiting the site generated curiousity about other games.

In my own case I am looking for a game for my daughter and her friends who will not be able to afford to pay to play. I also want it to be RP intensive because she doesn't have the time to powerplay and because I think it is the fantasy/make-believe aspect that she is most attracted to. I don't want too much PkP. Sure I am looking at the rankings but there are much more important factors.

Perusing the site, reading threads, it seems to me that the message boards are very useful. They look generally friendly and mature. I see admin, coders, builders, sharing information. I see posters answering questions about their muds, some joking around.

Boards are to a large extent what the posters make them. Admin can only do so much to control the mood of the boards even if outright flaming can be controlled.

On the one hand most people seem to be saying the rankings don't really matter, being number one shouldn't be any big deal, but on the other hand they are also expressing resentment towards the one game offering incentives, and also some hostility towards all commercial games. Can't have it both ways.

I believe that if Matt were told it is now against the rules to offer incentives, he would stop. On the other hand I agree with Synozeer that there are so many games out there it would be difficult to catch those who have more subtle incentives to vote.

I thought about it last night and it is really about game loyalty. I have been voting like mad for DR and I do love the game and think it is great, but I have never played any other game so it isn't like voting for say, a politian, where I am comparing several canditates and casting a vote for one of them.

It would be sleazy to offer incentives if it were against the policy of the site, or if it were done secretly, but that isn't the case. I mentioned the factors I considered first while looking for a mud for my daughter. After checking out some sites I realized another primary criteria. Ease of introduction and use. The commercial sites seem to do a much better job of that.

Some of the non-commercial sites offer explanations on what roleplaying is to completely inexperienced players, but they still let their first experience be through telnet. It's almost impossible to just learn as you go. They seem much more suited to players who already know the ropes, know how to choose and download a client, have a good general idea of how to play and only need to know the general rules and premise of the game. Either that, or have a friend who plays and can ease their entry.

I don't much care about the fighting mechanics as long as it is rp intensive, but on the other hand I also have to consider "adult" content. I am fairly free thinking on that score but at 13 my daughter's friends parents could definitely flip out if their daughter ends up rp raped. As I know rp games I will ensure that my daughter knows what to do if someone tries to involve her in rping a scenario she is not interested in. Parents that are not familar with rp games and are familiar with all the net stalking stories are much more likely to flip out and possibly blame either my daughter or me for exposing them to it.

It's a lot tougher to find an appropriate venue then it seems at first glance especially for completely inexperienced players.

Over the years at DR I have become very emotional over some issues one of which was the multi-tier accounts though that is not the only issue which I felt strongly about. Other players have become equally excited over various issues. After five years, I am calmer <grin>. I am still passionate about the game but I have a better sense of humor and I am better able to put things into perspective.

The issue of incentives is a tempest in a teapot. I could see from early on that the games with the highest number of players would be at the top of the list. Anyone looking to try out new muds, experienced or inexperienced, is going to be looking at the features and is going to click on more than one site to try to figure out what the differences are. Most are going to check out the boards too. I didn't just look at the top 20 either. I looked farther down on the list as well.

I think the reason that the commercial muds have so many more players is that they provide ease of entry to completely inexperienced players. Having the most players isn't as important an issue for the free muds as is having players who
are capable roleplayers and will contribute to the story.

The only thing this list ever represented was the game that most likely had the largest population. It isn't even divided by genre. Nothing underhanded or dishonest is happening on this site. It still seems to be operating as intended, a site for creators and players to find out about various muds and exchange information. The ratings never represented the "best" mud because there is no "best" mud only different kinds of muds.

As long as it is within the rules, there is nothing sleazy about offering incentives. I think it is much more important for games to be clear about whether or not they charge, or offer extra benefits for those who pay.

I am leaning towards Achaea for my daughter and friends because of ease of entry. Matt is correct to make a distinction between games with a monthy fee and games in which you can pay for extras but don't have to. I am glad the system suggested which I have been promoting wasn't in place because I wouldn't have even looked at it if it looked like one had to pay to play.

I may sway back towards another game because a friend pointed me to a free telnet client that might help. She already started a character in Feudal Realms but so did I later so I could help them get started, and I had a great deal of trouble getting around. Only one map, blank pages under FAQ with "coming soon", no player developed websites with information that I could find. It's just too hard.

Given that my daughter just wants to play "make-believe" and won't be a power player the ease of entry offered at Achaea will probably serve our purposes better. My first choice would be the Dragonrealms Platinum server but that is way too expensive for my pocketbook. Achaea is providing a valuable niche. It is spanning the divide between the free muds that demand a lot more effort to get started, and the pay to play which require a monthly fee. I didn't choose it because it is number one on the list.

I am getting the feeling that some posters are angry that any commercial muds are here at all. As though regardless of whether or not they offer incentives they are tainting the list. They aren't. The most damaging behavior for any focused site is flaming. That is what will drive away potential players not being offered a wide variety of different styles of muds including ones that charge or offer benefits for cash.

10-07-2002, 03:22 PM	#42
Seraphina Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 49	I can't imagine leaving DR, but I am checking out three new muds that I would not have known about if I had not come to this site. I know other DR players that are checking out games too. It isn't that we don't like the game that we play. It's that visiting the site generated curiousity about other games. In my own case I am looking for a game for my daughter and her friends who will not be able to afford to pay to play. I also want it to be RP intensive because she doesn't have the time to powerplay and because I think it is the fantasy/make-believe aspect that she is most attracted to. I don't want too much PkP. Sure I am looking at the rankings but there are much more important factors. Perusing the site, reading threads, it seems to me that the message boards are very useful. They look generally friendly and mature. I see admin, coders, builders, sharing information. I see posters answering questions about their muds, some joking around. Boards are to a large extent what the posters make them. Admin can only do so much to control the mood of the boards even if outright flaming can be controlled. On the one hand most people seem to be saying the rankings don't really matter, being number one shouldn't be any big deal, but on the other hand they are also expressing resentment towards the one game offering incentives, and also some hostility towards all commercial games. Can't have it both ways. I believe that if Matt were told it is now against the rules to offer incentives, he would stop. On the other hand I agree with Synozeer that there are so many games out there it would be difficult to catch those who have more subtle incentives to vote. I thought about it last night and it is really about game loyalty. I have been voting like mad for DR and I do love the game and think it is great, but I have never played any other game so it isn't like voting for say, a politian, where I am comparing several canditates and casting a vote for one of them. It would be sleazy to offer incentives if it were against the policy of the site, or if it were done secretly, but that isn't the case. I mentioned the factors I considered first while looking for a mud for my daughter. After checking out some sites I realized another primary criteria. Ease of introduction and use. The commercial sites seem to do a much better job of that. Some of the non-commercial sites offer explanations on what roleplaying is to completely inexperienced players, but they still let their first experience be through telnet. It's almost impossible to just learn as you go. They seem much more suited to players who already know the ropes, know how to choose and download a client, have a good general idea of how to play and only need to know the general rules and premise of the game. Either that, or have a friend who plays and can ease their entry. I don't much care about the fighting mechanics as long as it is rp intensive, but on the other hand I also have to consider "adult" content. I am fairly free thinking on that score but at 13 my daughter's friends parents could definitely flip out if their daughter ends up rp raped. As I know rp games I will ensure that my daughter knows what to do if someone tries to involve her in rping a scenario she is not interested in. Parents that are not familar with rp games and are familiar with all the net stalking stories are much more likely to flip out and possibly blame either my daughter or me for exposing them to it. It's a lot tougher to find an appropriate venue then it seems at first glance especially for completely inexperienced players. Over the years at DR I have become very emotional over some issues one of which was the multi-tier accounts though that is not the only issue which I felt strongly about. Other players have become equally excited over various issues. After five years, I am calmer <grin>. I am still passionate about the game but I have a better sense of humor and I am better able to put things into perspective. The issue of incentives is a tempest in a teapot. I could see from early on that the games with the highest number of players would be at the top of the list. Anyone looking to try out new muds, experienced or inexperienced, is going to be looking at the features and is going to click on more than one site to try to figure out what the differences are. Most are going to check out the boards too. I didn't just look at the top 20 either. I looked farther down on the list as well. I think the reason that the commercial muds have so many more players is that they provide ease of entry to completely inexperienced players. Having the most players isn't as important an issue for the free muds as is having players who are capable roleplayers and will contribute to the story. The only thing this list ever represented was the game that most likely had the largest population. It isn't even divided by genre. Nothing underhanded or dishonest is happening on this site. It still seems to be operating as intended, a site for creators and players to find out about various muds and exchange information. The ratings never represented the "best" mud because there is no "best" mud only different kinds of muds. As long as it is within the rules, there is nothing sleazy about offering incentives. I think it is much more important for games to be clear about whether or not they charge, or offer extra benefits for those who pay. I am leaning towards Achaea for my daughter and friends because of ease of entry. Matt is correct to make a distinction between games with a monthy fee and games in which you can pay for extras but don't have to. I am glad the system suggested which I have been promoting wasn't in place because I wouldn't have even looked at it if it looked like one had to pay to play. I may sway back towards another game because a friend pointed me to a free telnet client that might help. She already started a character in Feudal Realms but so did I later so I could help them get started, and I had a great deal of trouble getting around. Only one map, blank pages under FAQ with "coming soon", no player developed websites with information that I could find. It's just too hard. Given that my daughter just wants to play "make-believe" and won't be a power player the ease of entry offered at Achaea will probably serve our purposes better. My first choice would be the Dragonrealms Platinum server but that is way too expensive for my pocketbook. Achaea is providing a valuable niche. It is spanning the divide between the free muds that demand a lot more effort to get started, and the pay to play which require a monthly fee. I didn't choose it because it is number one on the list. I am getting the feeling that some posters are angry that any commercial muds are here at all. As though regardless of whether or not they offer incentives they are tainting the list. They aren't. The most damaging behavior for any focused site is flaming. That is what will drive away potential players not being offered a wide variety of different styles of muds including ones that charge or offer benefits for cash.